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|Bonnybrook on Mar 21, 2021 00:59 (1 month ago)|
Page 5 has a small picture of the San Telmo as Haakon Jarl. Also it shows a later ship with the funnel "K" but no Klaveness connection mentioned in history.
|Bjørn Knudsen on Mar 20, 2021 21:17 (1 month ago)|
|Manfred on Mar 20, 2021 19:25 (1 month ago)|
A closer look of SANTA CRUZ for comparison, seen here with her sister SAN TELMO in 1917 at Oslo:
|Bonnybrook on Mar 20, 2021 02:47 (1 month ago)|
|The skipshistorie site seems lively and presumably is kept and read by lots of Norwegian enthusiasts perhaps best able to resolve this. I suggest contacting that site.|
|rarcand on Mar 20, 2021 02:17 (1 month ago)|
|Like Manfred, I think the original picture was altered. The starboard side of the funnel shows what could be part of an "X" that is much thinner than the "K" on the port side which seems to be painted over the funnel. At a great enlargement, the "K" seems to be in 3D.|
|adenanthos on Mar 19, 2021 23:23 (1 month ago)|
Yes Manfred I think you are right, the stripes on the starboard side of the funnel look like that of the Thoresen emblem (much thinner than the port side), also I compared many details of our ship with pictures on the internet of the SANTA CRUZ and they are 98% similar.
Also the name could read SANTA CRUZ
The only question remaining is what the heck is that huge K stand for on the port side funnel?
Maybe a Klaveness charter? but only painted on one side?, strange, maybe someone has an answer someday.
Thank you all for contributing to this mystery, united we came a long way.
|Manfred on Mar 19, 2021 16:55 (1 month ago)|
I think she might be Norwegian SANTA CRUZ/Kristiania, built 1905 for Dampskibs A/S Otto Thoresens Linie, Kristiania.
The funnel mark might not be a K. because the funnel X on the starboard side aft shows a bit through when in full screen...open for discussion!
|Bonnybrook on Mar 19, 2021 01:30 (1 month ago)|
|Rick Vince's original comment seemed on the mark, i.e. Klaveness and refrigeration, but the only Klaveness ships of that era in the specific Skipshistorie fruit ship list are the Mandeville and then the Taunton, Vera and Verona (of 1902-3).|
|adenanthos on Mar 18, 2021 16:31 (1 month ago)|
|"Resembles" but is not the same vessel, many differences.|
|Manfred on Mar 18, 2021 12:45 (1 month ago)|
|Bonnybrook on Mar 18, 2021 11:03 (1 month ago)|
|This at least closely resembles the MANDEVILLE, built by Burmeister & Wain in 1911 for D/S A/S Mandeville and managed by A.F. Klaveness of Kristiania. Later names Mammy and Ambica. Info from Norwegian skipshistorie site.|
|ChasB46 on Mar 17, 2021 23:17 (1 month ago)|
|Says photo "around 1912". Could be therefore a few years earlier or later?|
|adenanthos on Mar 17, 2021 22:22 (1 month ago)|
Gentlemen as stated before the picture is dated 1912, so later than 1912 is not possible.
Ship on the quay is indeed GERMANIA of Svenska Lloyd of 1908
The next ship beyond our mystery vessel is th ALMA of 1906
|davidships on Mar 17, 2021 17:00 (1 month ago)|
|Thanks Manfred - yes, I agree. That limits the photo to late-1908/1914 (no neutrality markings on GERMANIA, lost in 1917|
|Manfred on Mar 17, 2021 16:58 (1 month ago)|
The nearer ship:
She looks like GERMANIA of 1908:
Compare the large side hatch at Hold no.2!
|davidships on Mar 17, 2021 15:47 (1 month ago)|
Looking at where the ensign mast is, I would guess that the name is 8-10 letters - first thRee seem like FLO/FLE or similar, but nothing found to match.
The p.o.r. a little shorter (I cannot see it as Ch/Kristiania
I'm even having trouble with the name of the nearer ship.
|Manfred on Mar 17, 2021 11:18 (1 month ago)|
|@ChasB46: Yes that`s the one I was looking for....but if it doesn`t read FLANDRIA after all??|
|adenanthos on Mar 17, 2021 00:07 (1 month ago)|
|Photo is from 1912 or somewhat before that.|
|adenanthos on Mar 17, 2021 00:07 (1 month ago)|
|I don't think the name is FLANDRIA on the stern, the name is very difficult to read, though I do think the homeport is Kristiania|
|ChasB46 on Mar 16, 2021 20:11 (1 month ago)|
Manfred is this the Menapier you are looking for?
|Manfred on Mar 16, 2021 19:16 (1 month ago)|
@ChasB46: I did not mean that this is KJELL, just showing her in the attached link that she is not the mystery ship.
If it does read FLANDRIA at the stern she could also be the one built 1908 by Short Bros. for Ghent Lloyd, renamed MENAPIER in 1911 and sunk in 1915. Must find a photo....
|ChasB46 on Mar 16, 2021 18:41 (1 month ago)|
|Manfred, between us I think its sorted. KJELL. So photo after 1922? When did it become white?|
|libertyshiplad on Mar 16, 2021 18:08 (1 month ago)|
|Those two covered barges,have not seen anything like that before ?|
|Manfred on Mar 16, 2021 18:07 (1 month ago)|
This is FLANDRIA/KJELL of 1898, decide for yourself:
|ChasB46 on Mar 16, 2021 17:43 (1 month ago)|
Does this help?
and from this built 1898 Flandria renamed 1910 as Valborg then 1922 Kjell (K on funnel??)and survived until 1953 and BU. This data coincides with Miramar.( https://www.miramarshipindex.nz/ship/3006804)
Different Flandria of 1898 was sunk by U Boat.
|rarcand on Mar 16, 2021 16:35 (1 month ago)|
|There was a FLANDRIA owned by Förnyade Ångfartygs-A/B Götha, Gothenburg built in 1898 and sank by a U-boat in 1940. (https://uboat.net/allies/merchants/ship/182.html)|
|Bjørn Knudsen on Mar 16, 2021 16:21 (1 month ago)|
|Stern name shows FLANDRIA ????|
|adenanthos on Mar 16, 2021 13:31 (1 month ago)|
|But the letter K on the funnel is much larger than the Klaveness K|
|Rick Vince on Mar 16, 2021 10:26 (1 month ago)|
|I have continued to research this vessel, and consider that it could be a motor ship rather than a steamer, and, if so, it is likely to have been built by Burmeister & Wain.|
|Rick Vince on Mar 15, 2021 22:14 (1 month ago)|
It appears to be a Norwegian cargo ship with refrigerated cargo space.
The funnel colours are of A.F.Klaveness A/S, Lysaker, Oslo.
It is not this ship, but it is similar.
I cannot find an exact match on that website. Not all Klaveness ships have images.
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