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GOTHENBURG, Sweden

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Photographer:
adenanthos [ View profile ]
Location:
Gothenburg, Sweden
Added:
Mar 15, 2021
Views:
1,994
Image Resolution:
3,117 x 1,689

Description:

Vessels on the right are from bottom to top

GERMANIA (08/1110 grt)
SANTA CRUZ (05/1475 grt)
ALMA (06/529 grt)



From my family's photo collection

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Newest First
person
https://larship.no/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/3_2011.pdf
Page 5 has a small picture of the San Telmo as Haakon Jarl. Also it shows a later ship with the funnel "K" but no Klaveness connection mentioned in history.

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person

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person
A closer look of SANTA CRUZ for comparison, seen here with her sister SAN TELMO in 1917 at Oslo:

https://digitaltmuseum.no/021015452845/vinter-pa-havnen/media?slide=0

https://digitaltmuseum.no/021015452846/vinter-pa-havnen/media?slide=0

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person
The skipshistorie site seems lively and presumably is kept and read by lots of Norwegian enthusiasts perhaps best able to resolve this. I suggest contacting that site.

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person
Like Manfred, I think the original picture was altered. The starboard side of the funnel shows what could be part of an "X" that is much thinner than the "K" on the port side which seems to be painted over the funnel. At a great enlargement, the "K" seems to be in 3D.

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person
Yes Manfred I think you are right, the stripes on the starboard side of the funnel look like that of the Thoresen emblem (much thinner than the port side), also I compared many details of our ship with pictures on the internet of the SANTA CRUZ and they are 98% similar.
Also the name could read SANTA CRUZ
The only question remaining is what the heck is that huge K stand for on the port side funnel?
Maybe a Klaveness charter? but only painted on one side?, strange, maybe someone has an answer someday.
Thank you all for contributing to this mystery, united we came a long way.
Greetings
Chris

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person
Hi all,
I think she might be Norwegian SANTA CRUZ/Kristiania, built 1905 for Dampskibs A/S Otto Thoresens Linie, Kristiania.
The funnel mark might not be a K. because the funnel X on the starboard side aft shows a bit through when in full screen...open for discussion!
Rgds, Manfred

https://skipshistorie.net/Oslo/OSL376OttoThoresen/Tekster/OSL37619050100000%20SANTA%20CRUZ.htm

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person
Rick Vince's original comment seemed on the mark, i.e. Klaveness and refrigeration, but the only Klaveness ships of that era in the specific Skipshistorie fruit ship list are the Mandeville and then the Taunton, Vera and Verona (of 1902-3).

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person
"Resembles" but is not the same vessel, many differences.

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person

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person
This at least closely resembles the MANDEVILLE, built by Burmeister & Wain in 1911 for D/S A/S Mandeville and managed by A.F. Klaveness of Kristiania. Later names Mammy and Ambica. Info from Norwegian skipshistorie site.

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person
Says photo "around 1912". Could be therefore a few years earlier or later?

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person
Gentlemen as stated before the picture is dated 1912, so later than 1912 is not possible.
Ship on the quay is indeed GERMANIA of Svenska Lloyd of 1908
The next ship beyond our mystery vessel is th ALMA of 1906

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person
Thanks Manfred - yes, I agree. That limits the photo to late-1908/1914 (no neutrality markings on GERMANIA, lost in 1917

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person
@davidships:
The nearer ship:
She looks like GERMANIA of 1908:
http://kommandobryggan.se/lloyd/germania.htm
Compare the large side hatch at Hold no.2!
Rgds, Manfred

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person
Looking at where the ensign mast is, I would guess that the name is 8-10 letters - first thRee seem like FLO/FLE or similar, but nothing found to match.
The p.o.r. a little shorter (I cannot see it as Ch/Kristiania

I'm even having trouble with the name of the nearer ship.

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person
@ChasB46: Yes that`s the one I was looking for....but if it doesn`t read FLANDRIA after all??

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person
Photo is from 1912 or somewhat before that.

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person
I don't think the name is FLANDRIA on the stern, the name is very difficult to read, though I do think the homeport is Kristiania

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person
Manfred is this the Menapier you are looking for?
https://www.wrecksite.eu/wreck.aspx?15080

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person
@ChasB46: I did not mean that this is KJELL, just showing her in the attached link that she is not the mystery ship.

If it does read FLANDRIA at the stern she could also be the one built 1908 by Short Bros. for Ghent Lloyd, renamed MENAPIER in 1911 and sunk in 1915. Must find a photo....

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person
Manfred, between us I think its sorted. KJELL. So photo after 1922? When did it become white?

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person
Those two covered barges,have not seen anything like that before ?

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person
This is FLANDRIA/KJELL of 1898, decide for yourself:
https://digitaltmuseum.se/021015773354/fo57047a

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person
Does this help?
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=da&u=http://www.jmarcussen.dk/maritim/mart/lexref/rederier/fisker.html&prev=search&pto=aue

and from this built 1898 Flandria renamed 1910 as Valborg then 1922 Kjell (K on funnel??)and survived until 1953 and BU. This data coincides with Miramar.( https://www.miramarshipindex.nz/ship/3006804)

Different Flandria of 1898 was sunk by U Boat.

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person
There was a FLANDRIA owned by Förnyade Ångfartygs-A/B Götha, Gothenburg built in 1898 and sank by a U-boat in 1940. (https://uboat.net/allies/merchants/ship/182.html)

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person
Stern name shows FLANDRIA ????

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person
But the letter K on the funnel is much larger than the Klaveness K

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person
I have continued to research this vessel, and consider that it could be a motor ship rather than a steamer, and, if so, it is likely to have been built by Burmeister & Wain.

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person
It appears to be a Norwegian cargo ship with refrigerated cargo space.

The funnel colours are of A.F.Klaveness A/S, Lysaker, Oslo.
It is not this ship, but it is similar.
https://skipshistorie.net/Oslo/OSL302AFKlaveness/Tekster/OSL30219110200000%20MANDEVILLE.htm

I cannot find an exact match on that website. Not all Klaveness ships have images.

Regards, Rick

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